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	<title>Comments on: The UI/UX Sandwich</title>
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	<link>http://blog.lindsaytabas.com/2009/08/the-uiux-sandwich/</link>
	<description>Keeping the Mind Engaged Outside of 9-5.  Writings and Musings by Lindsay Tabas</description>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://blog.lindsaytabas.com/2009/08/the-uiux-sandwich/comment-page-1/#comment-6148</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lindsaytabas.com/blog/?p=550#comment-6148</guid>
		<description>This is where you have lost me Cindy.  I understand and respect that you have been in the industry for a long time, which gives you much more experience than I have.  But, the degree/education/background I describe for people in this role is that of Human Computer Interaction, which is fundamentally the marriage of psychology and computer science.  The curricula for this expertise is designed specifically for user experience, information architecture, usability and user interface design.  If you won&#039;t hire and work with people that have a degree specifically for this type of work, are you denying yourself benefit from the most capable and trained?

Could you explain why you wouldn&#039;t hire someone with a compsci or psych background?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is where you have lost me Cindy.  I understand and respect that you have been in the industry for a long time, which gives you much more experience than I have.  But, the degree/education/background I describe for people in this role is that of Human Computer Interaction, which is fundamentally the marriage of psychology and computer science.  The curricula for this expertise is designed specifically for user experience, information architecture, usability and user interface design.  If you won&#8217;t hire and work with people that have a degree specifically for this type of work, are you denying yourself benefit from the most capable and trained?</p>
<p>Could you explain why you wouldn&#8217;t hire someone with a compsci or psych background?</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy</title>
		<link>http://blog.lindsaytabas.com/2009/08/the-uiux-sandwich/comment-page-1/#comment-6147</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lindsaytabas.com/blog/?p=550#comment-6147</guid>
		<description>Lindsay,

Perhaps we&#039;re blurring the distinction... I&#039;ve been a User Experiece/Information Architect for over 10 years, so I&#039;m well aware of the field.  There has been much discussion on this topic over those years.  We currently have a UI designer that does graphics and HTML/CSS.  Our User Experience team does the interaction design and information architecture (as well as some other disciplines involved in the overall &#039;experience&#039;).   I still disagree.  A degree in CompSci or any psych discipline is not required at all.  In fact, I find it preferable not to hire folks with that background to design.  That said, it does help to have knowledge of how things work on the backend... BUT, I caution that you shouldn&#039;t necessarily design for those constraints AT FIRST.  Collaboration with devs can help alleviate those roadblocks anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsay,</p>
<p>Perhaps we&#8217;re blurring the distinction&#8230; I&#8217;ve been a User Experiece/Information Architect for over 10 years, so I&#8217;m well aware of the field.  There has been much discussion on this topic over those years.  We currently have a UI designer that does graphics and HTML/CSS.  Our User Experience team does the interaction design and information architecture (as well as some other disciplines involved in the overall &#8216;experience&#8217;).   I still disagree.  A degree in CompSci or any psych discipline is not required at all.  In fact, I find it preferable not to hire folks with that background to design.  That said, it does help to have knowledge of how things work on the backend&#8230; BUT, I caution that you shouldn&#8217;t necessarily design for those constraints AT FIRST.  Collaboration with devs can help alleviate those roadblocks anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://blog.lindsaytabas.com/2009/08/the-uiux-sandwich/comment-page-1/#comment-6146</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lindsaytabas.com/blog/?p=550#comment-6146</guid>
		<description>When I encounter UI designers that don&#039;t have any type of tech background (some familiarity with a coding language or how the application layer or databases function), I find that they choose designs that are impractical to implement and they miss out on key steps in the interaction that the developers have to fill in, and may fill in to the detriment of the overall user experience.  They miss a drop-down option, an alert warning, or a step to collect a piece of required information altogether.  

But note that I do say that the computer scientists should have a familiarity in psychology to be an effective UI designer, and that psychologists should have a familiarity in computer science.  100% of either alone will not produce a well-rounded UI/IX designer.  (Please note, when I say &quot;psychology&quot; my generalization was intended to include fields in the social sciences, like cognitive science and sociology.)

Remember, user interface design is not just about the basics - grouping like information together, placing buttons where the user&#039;s mouse will be, or highlighting the most important data.  It&#039;s also about understanding the users goals and practically mapping those goals to something software can realistically support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I encounter UI designers that don&#8217;t have any type of tech background (some familiarity with a coding language or how the application layer or databases function), I find that they choose designs that are impractical to implement and they miss out on key steps in the interaction that the developers have to fill in, and may fill in to the detriment of the overall user experience.  They miss a drop-down option, an alert warning, or a step to collect a piece of required information altogether.  </p>
<p>But note that I do say that the computer scientists should have a familiarity in psychology to be an effective UI designer, and that psychologists should have a familiarity in computer science.  100% of either alone will not produce a well-rounded UI/IX designer.  (Please note, when I say &#8220;psychology&#8221; my generalization was intended to include fields in the social sciences, like cognitive science and sociology.)</p>
<p>Remember, user interface design is not just about the basics &#8211; grouping like information together, placing buttons where the user&#8217;s mouse will be, or highlighting the most important data.  It&#8217;s also about understanding the users goals and practically mapping those goals to something software can realistically support.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy</title>
		<link>http://blog.lindsaytabas.com/2009/08/the-uiux-sandwich/comment-page-1/#comment-6145</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lindsaytabas.com/blog/?p=550#comment-6145</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the statement that &quot;It’s not necessary they have a degree in computer science and a degree in psychology, but one or the other, with familiarity in each is necessary.&quot;  There are many other backgrounds in the field...  Librarians, Graphic designers-turned-UX, etc.  I find that those with less &#039;science&#039; in their field of study tend to be more adept at design.  Not to say there isn&#039;t room for scientists, they seem to take on more of the testing and analyst.  Not scientific, just a personal observation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the statement that &#8220;It’s not necessary they have a degree in computer science and a degree in psychology, but one or the other, with familiarity in each is necessary.&#8221;  There are many other backgrounds in the field&#8230;  Librarians, Graphic designers-turned-UX, etc.  I find that those with less &#8216;science&#8217; in their field of study tend to be more adept at design.  Not to say there isn&#8217;t room for scientists, they seem to take on more of the testing and analyst.  Not scientific, just a personal observation</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://blog.lindsaytabas.com/2009/08/the-uiux-sandwich/comment-page-1/#comment-6138</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lindsaytabas.com/blog/?p=550#comment-6138</guid>
		<description>Hi Fredrik -  I believe we agree that there is a separation between a UI/Interaction Designer&#039;s role and a Graphic Designer&#039;s role.  Perhaps me calling them &#039;artists&#039; sounds condescending; I do not intend to play down their role in the development of an attractive interface and product.

As for developers, I have many friends that are conscientious about their users, but in my own experience, the excitement to build things takes precedence over the design.  I do have the luxury of being able to design and code my own projects, but I realize it&#039;s very hard to be good at building scalable web applications and at designing world class user interfaces.  At some point, my expertise ends, and I defer to someone else who is much more skilled at back end and application development.  This is all being part of a team, emphasizing each others strengths and deferring to others on your weaknesses.

I also think we agree that the industry needs to evolve more.  I think it&#039;s unfortunate that Moggridge believes interaction design is coming to an end, because I don&#039;t believe it ever came to fruition.  That being said, everyone, not just people in software, will need to start coding, even if it&#039;s just HTML and CSS.

Finally, the one point I&#039;m not sure you are making, is that Google, Facebook, Yahoo and Twitter have good interaction design.  I would fundamentally disagree.  Facebook is the one most plagued with this confusion between UI/IX Designers and UI Engineer; to be part of their design team you have to be a tried and true developer, which I believe is hurting their application.  See this set I&#039;ve been creating on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/honeyroastd/sets/72157622136990700/

Thank you so much for all the pointers and for taking the time to leave valuable input on the conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Fredrik &#8211;  I believe we agree that there is a separation between a UI/Interaction Designer&#8217;s role and a Graphic Designer&#8217;s role.  Perhaps me calling them &#8216;artists&#8217; sounds condescending; I do not intend to play down their role in the development of an attractive interface and product.</p>
<p>As for developers, I have many friends that are conscientious about their users, but in my own experience, the excitement to build things takes precedence over the design.  I do have the luxury of being able to design and code my own projects, but I realize it&#8217;s very hard to be good at building scalable web applications and at designing world class user interfaces.  At some point, my expertise ends, and I defer to someone else who is much more skilled at back end and application development.  This is all being part of a team, emphasizing each others strengths and deferring to others on your weaknesses.</p>
<p>I also think we agree that the industry needs to evolve more.  I think it&#8217;s unfortunate that Moggridge believes interaction design is coming to an end, because I don&#8217;t believe it ever came to fruition.  That being said, everyone, not just people in software, will need to start coding, even if it&#8217;s just HTML and CSS.</p>
<p>Finally, the one point I&#8217;m not sure you are making, is that Google, Facebook, Yahoo and Twitter have good interaction design.  I would fundamentally disagree.  Facebook is the one most plagued with this confusion between UI/IX Designers and UI Engineer; to be part of their design team you have to be a tried and true developer, which I believe is hurting their application.  See this set I&#8217;ve been creating on Flickr: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/honeyroastd/sets/72157622136990700/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/honeyroastd/sets/72157622136990700/</a></p>
<p>Thank you so much for all the pointers and for taking the time to leave valuable input on the conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Fredrik Matheson / @movito</title>
		<link>http://blog.lindsaytabas.com/2009/08/the-uiux-sandwich/comment-page-1/#comment-6134</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredrik Matheson / @movito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lindsaytabas.com/blog/?p=550#comment-6134</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure my graphic design colleagues would agree that they are &quot;artists&quot;. The ones I work with do research, work methodically and are exceptionally skilled at visual communication in print and on screens. 

Their efforts help my wireframes, UIs and services function better and communicate more clearly. 

This does not mean, however, that anywhichwhoever graphic designer can do the job well. A great deal of domain knowledge is required.

With regards to developers, it&#039;s important to remember that they, too, enjoy using tools and interfaces that are learnable, effective, efficient and pleasurable. 

In the last five years, I&#039;ve seen more and more developers that are sensitized to user needs and interested in making usable and enjoyable services. Personally, I&#039;d love to be able to research, design, code, test, refine, improve and release tools all on my own. 

In his book &quot;Designing Interactions&quot;, Bill Moggridge talks about how, while interaction design as an area is here to stay, the idea that it is a completely different discipline is nearing its end. Think of Inquisitor, NewsFire, Tweetie and all the other great apps that are designed and coded by the same person.

Here&#039;s Bill&#039;s quote on the matter: http://www.usabilitynews.com/news/article3587.asp

With regard to titles and job roles, the market at large doesn&#039;t know much about UX and IXD, but when usable services make more money and giants such as Google, Facebook, Yahoo and Twitter tout the importance of usability (etc), people will try to emulate them.

Dave Malouf has a great deck about why an interaction design education requires a different foundation than, say, graphic design or industrial design (which I studied, btw).

http://www.slideshare.net/dmalouf/interaction09-foundations-of-interaction-design?type=powerpoint

Have you joined the Interaction Design Association (IXDA)? Judging from your post above, I think you&#039;ll find a great deal of interesting information in our archives and in the daily discussions.

http://www.ixda.org/discuss</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure my graphic design colleagues would agree that they are &#8220;artists&#8221;. The ones I work with do research, work methodically and are exceptionally skilled at visual communication in print and on screens. </p>
<p>Their efforts help my wireframes, UIs and services function better and communicate more clearly. </p>
<p>This does not mean, however, that anywhichwhoever graphic designer can do the job well. A great deal of domain knowledge is required.</p>
<p>With regards to developers, it&#8217;s important to remember that they, too, enjoy using tools and interfaces that are learnable, effective, efficient and pleasurable. </p>
<p>In the last five years, I&#8217;ve seen more and more developers that are sensitized to user needs and interested in making usable and enjoyable services. Personally, I&#8217;d love to be able to research, design, code, test, refine, improve and release tools all on my own. </p>
<p>In his book &#8220;Designing Interactions&#8221;, Bill Moggridge talks about how, while interaction design as an area is here to stay, the idea that it is a completely different discipline is nearing its end. Think of Inquisitor, NewsFire, Tweetie and all the other great apps that are designed and coded by the same person.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s Bill&#8217;s quote on the matter: <a href="http://www.usabilitynews.com/news/article3587.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.usabilitynews.com/news/article3587.asp</a></p>
<p>With regard to titles and job roles, the market at large doesn&#8217;t know much about UX and IXD, but when usable services make more money and giants such as Google, Facebook, Yahoo and Twitter tout the importance of usability (etc), people will try to emulate them.</p>
<p>Dave Malouf has a great deck about why an interaction design education requires a different foundation than, say, graphic design or industrial design (which I studied, btw).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.slideshare.net/dmalouf/interaction09-foundations-of-interaction-design?type=powerpoint" rel="nofollow">http://www.slideshare.net/dmalouf/interaction09-foundations-of-interaction-design?type=powerpoint</a></p>
<p>Have you joined the Interaction Design Association (IXDA)? Judging from your post above, I think you&#8217;ll find a great deal of interesting information in our archives and in the daily discussions.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ixda.org/discuss" rel="nofollow">http://www.ixda.org/discuss</a></p>
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